What if I think of Vinyasa Krama as my 3rd series. In Ashtanga, when moving on to 2nd, you still practice Primary on Friday and on moving to 3rd you practice Primary Friday, rest Saturday, practice 2nd on Sunday and then 3rd the rest of the week. Once a week is supposedly enough to keep the previous two series ticking along nicely, so how about I do the same but practice Vinyasa Krama the rest of the week in place of 3rd.
Feels like a neat, angst free solution (enough angst about the cricket).
So this morning I practiced Vinyasa Krama built around the Bow sequence. It's a backbend sequence so I emphasised those aspects in the tadasana sequence that started my practice and included dropbacks. I simplified Bow sequence a little but kept the Viparita Salabhasana and Garbha Bherundasana and extended the theme a little into Eka pada raja kapotasana, Ustrasana, Laghu and Kapo. I used the long five minute Paschimottanasana as a counter pose then went into the shoulderstand prep and long inversions with their variations ( Viparita andEka pada viparita dandasanas in Shoulderstand). Finished with Maha mudra, Badha konasana and Badha padmasana/Yoga mudra before 108 kapalbhati, twenty minutes of nadi shodana pranayama with the pranayama mantra on the inhaled retention, five minutes pratyahara (shanmukhi mudra) and three times round the mala for japa mantra meditation
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Sounds like a good plan Tony. It's got hint of Ashtanga systemisation to it, which is somewhat better than changing direction every time there's a hint of a psychological or physical 'bump' (I had a lorry that did that, when I was a kid). But, it assumes you're proficient in 1st, 2nd & 3rd because until that's the case a certified or authorised teacher would get you to practice all of 2nd everyday and add a posture up to the split point, when proficient in all that's gone before (barre Primary Fridays).
If people don't progress in that manner, don't they become 'Jack of all Asanas, but master of none'?
Hang on a minute Steve, 'Jack of all trades' implies proficiency, no?
Trying to think of a single pose that I'd say I've mastered. I mean, I can bind at the wrist with flat feet in pasasana and, on a good day catch my heels from the air in Kapo, go up and down and flip out of karanda but wouldn't say I've mastered them, proficient at best. Come to think of it, same goes for most of Standing, finding new things in them all the time so can't have mastered them yet. But your talking Shala Ashtanga, not my bag, check the blog title.
Was thinking about this on the way home, those early guys ( and later teachers) did they master poses before moving on to the next or did Guruji figure, yeah that's good enough, here's the next one. Oh and reading the Guruji book, the state of the postures before the Iyengar influence started to come in was supposedly frightening.
But hey, it's just asana I'll settle for proficiency and keep working at them but worry about seeking mastery over the minds fluctuations.
I think I owe you an apology mate. I wasn't intending my comment to be a criticism of your asana practice, nor your approach to it. I think I'm clear as a bell on that: - You can't decide whether to practice Ashtanga, or Vinyasa Krama on a daily basis.
I was rushing off to catch a bus to Bangkok when I posted, and put in some "global you's", which upon re-reading, look like very "personal you's" i.e. criticisms. That was a dumb thing to do on a blog. It was bound to be taken personally.
What I said about 'Jacks' & 'Masters' again was general. I meant it to illustrate how I differentiate between the rest of the world & those who learn Ashtanga via the traditional method:
- adding postures progressively.
- practicing the gate postures satisfactorily, and not moving forward until they do.
- the gradual transition into the next series by doing an agonizingly long practice until they reach the split points etc.
From what I've seen; the ones who come out of the other end of that lot are (figuratively) 'the masters' and the rest are 'the jacks'. What I mean is, people who have learned the series by the traditional method always seem to have a hypnotizing quality of effortlessness & calm about them in every posture.
I should've said jack of all series', master of none.
At work so can't write now Steve, but wanted to quickly say no apology necessary, didn't think you were having a go. Interesting topic though, I had to cut back my reply was going on about Alexander the Great and Philip's response to his mastery of music etc. Come back to this after work if that's OK.
I know I write about David Williams too much, sorry about that, but he's the only teacher I've had, so oh well. Anyway, thought I'd chime in that he learned the 'traditional' way from Jois back in the day, and got the poses as fast as he could remember them. I think he did 1st and 2nd in four months. That's the way he teaches, too, here, have the whole system. You still have to practice every day for the rest of your life! :) He's definitely not a 'master of none' and certainly has that hypnotizing thing going on when he practices. Just another data point suggesting that the speed at which one acquires new poses is not the only (or even most pertinent?) variable to a valuable practice.
hey Steve, I should have dropped the H from 'hang on a minute..., was intending it with a jokey, thick norf london accent. I read your you're as a collective you're and not as directed at me personally.
The traditional method you refer to should probably be called the NEW traditional method though, as Maya points out below, re David Williams and those early guys who relate how they learned the practice in the Guruji book.
There's something to be said for both methods I think.
re the mastery of poses. I was thinking earlier of Richard Freeman fumbling about trying to grab his heels in kapo in his intermediate DVD. Tim Miller not even reaching his in his Kapo on the Jois 1983 DVD and Kino confessing that her Karanda isn't that great in her 2nd series DVD. Don't you just need a certain level of proficiency to get through the 'gatekeeper poses rather than mastery.
But I hear you about those Ashtangi's who seem to practice effortlessly, is that the method though or just that they've practiced a long time and/or perhaps more likely just something about them personally and what they bring to the practice. I can't really comment though, haven't been to enough Shala's, can only go by the video clips on Youtube.
Something i've thought about a lot recently is that there are some excellent teachers in Ashtanga, really excellent, and of course very few Vinyasa Krama teachers ( and the asana is often not the main concern). I feel I should make the most of my ashtanga background, take some workshops, some Ashtanga holidays or something in case I am ever called on to teach some VK.
Thanks for that Maya was thinking along similar lines. oh and you can never write too much about David Williams here, really hope to take his workshop someday.
I take your point Maya, but David quite graphically describes his disk bursting and feeling spinal fluid ooze out of it when he learned 3rd, or was it 4th series? Since back then, it's been research, research, research and years of commitment from Guruji that have given the guidelines for us Westerners to learn the series. Whether you take them or leave them is up to the individual but surely you're more grounded and honest in your practice if you've done your level best to adhere to them.
Let's take a day 1 beginner scenario: Just say there are two new recruits. One pushes through primary in talk-through after talk-through, and the other lets a teacher show him/her Surya's A & B. Which one gets up on Monday looking forward to practicing?
This method of gradual but consistent strength & stamina building carries on right through the whole shooting match and leaves you steady in every breath.
In fact, another of David's lines is "sometimes the tortoise wins the race", so isn't he teaching from the same page?
Steve, are you really intending to suggest that anyone who doesn't follow an authorised Shala practice has a somehow less 'honest' practice. Not the first time someones suggested that here, I'm pretty much immune to the prejudice now but it irritates me every time when I think of new home ashtangi's coming up reading that. I figure anyone who gets up, especially on these cold dark mornings over here, and practices sincerely has an honest practice. If we were in a pub i'd make you get the next round for that one ; )
Not really, ... at least I don't think it intended to to sound so black & white. But when I hear of, say, someone doing Eka Pada, when they can't yet bind in Marichi D, my initial reaction is 'whoa, whoa ... you're missing out on the 'practice and all is coming...' aspect if you don't spend more time addressing the blocks, and if you're really unlucky, your sternum will pop because your foundations aren't sound yet.
Hello Steve! My experience of David W. is that he would never, never suggest pushing within a given asana. He says here, have as many poses as you want, and *do them at your level of comfort*. He's big on easy variations and on NEVER getting injured. I did hear him describe that spinal injury you mention--it's part of why he said he doesn't do adjustments when he teaches (because a teacher can't know where a student's sweet spot is in a pose and will tend to blow past it. He got that injury from an adjustment by Jois). The tortoise/hare he speaks of, I believe, is *within an asana*--that is, the tortoise wins by not pushing to achieve a specific asana, a bind, for example. The tortoise isn't about the number of poses you're 'allowed' to have or the speed at which you attempt to learn them, only how deeply you go into them. Again, all of this is just my understanding of his words, apologies to David, wherever he is, if I am misremembering or misunderstanding! :)
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