This blog is essentially 'sleeping'.

I've deleted or returned to draft 80% of the blog, gone are most, if not all, of the videos I posted of Pattabhi Jois, gone are most of the posts regarding my own practice as well as most of my practice videos in YouTube, other than those linked to my Vinyasa Yoga Practice Book).

Mostly I've just retained the 'Research' posts, those relating to Krishnamacharya in particular.

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Tuesday, 20 November 2012

Guest Post: Krishnamacharya's Yoga Makaranda (part II) OR IS IT?



I mentioned at the end of my previous post that one of the things I was hoping to do this week was take a closer look at Krishnamacharya's Yoga Makaranda ( part II), released by AG Mohan at the end of last week. I had questions...

1. The similarity to Salutations the Teacher the Eternal one

2. Dating the text ( There's a mention of a book by Indra Devi)

3. Differences in style between Yoga Makaranda Part 1 and part II

4. Relation to Krishnamacharya's Yogasanagalu

5. It's relation to Krishnamacharya's later teaching, i.e. Yoga Therapy.

6. The curios order of the text that seemed to suggest to me the possibility of two texts combined

7. The lack of pictures ( although they are mentioned).

8. Who translated the text into English and when.

9. Did Krishnamacharya consider the text as Yoga Makaranda Part II

My own feeling is that as a text that AG Mohan dates originally to the late 30s early 40s, although the typewritten version he was given was from the 60's, It's focus on head and shoulder stands and pranayama make it a good candidate for the completion of original plan of Yoga Makaranda. I think that being the case it's fair to call it Yoga Makaranda (part II). I do wonder if Krishnamacharya ever referred to it as such however. The difficulties arise because it seems fair to assume that it was written a period of time after Yoga Makaranda and then typed up later still. Other material appears to have become included resulting in some of the confusion Enrique highlights below.

Last night I started going through Salutations and marking the page numbers corresponding to the new text in the margin.

Luckily for me Enrique has beaten me to it and produced a re-ordering/correction of the Salutations in the light of AG Mohan's release of Yoga Makaranda ( Part II) allowing us to better compare the two texts.  That text plus his comments today raise some interesting questions,  here they are below as a guest post, so as to bring the issues together more clearly. The dividing lines are to indicate the different comments.

This post is probably a work in progress that we can add to and will eventually end up with a page of it's own at the top of it's blog along with the previous post on Yoga Makaranda.

These questions should in no way be seen I hope as a lack of gratitude to AG Mohan for releasing the text, I know Enrique is just as appreciative as I am of this gift to the community.

A reminder : This post is made up of comments to the original MythicalYoga Makaranda (Part II) post which should explain it's abrupt and note like presentation.

UPDATE 21/11/12
I'm coming around to an earlier date for Yoga Makaranda (Part II) after all. I've just finished a ten hour practice, pranayama, a long slow Primary series and then, while the body was still loose, a six hour work through of the text of Yoga Makaranda (part II). It took so long because I was carefully following all the instructions, practicing all the variations, highlighting and taking the odd notes. And I hear Yoga Makaranda (part I) in the text, I really do. Admittedly there is no mention of the vinyasa count that characterises part I, but the focus on the breath is there, the postures where you can include retention after exhalation, those after inhalation, the exploration of the breath in Asana. In short pranayama in asana. The descriptions aren't as formal as in the Makaranda we're familiar with, they are more explanatory than descriptive, it's a teaching manual. At times though it's quite extreme, Mayurasana described just as we're familar with from Ashtanga 2nd series, but K. offers a variation where we take the legs into padmasana mayurasana while still balancing in regular mayurasana, tricky and hard on the nose. There are sequences almost exactly like Ramaswami's presentation of Vinyasa Krama, but in suptapa Angushtasana K. includes a full padmasana variation, something you can imagine him including back 1938 when that old demonstration video was short.

So although I think the texts has been worked on and added to over the years, adapted in line with projects that never bore fruition, I'm coming around to the idea that the bones of text may well have been originally  written down in the late 30's early 40's.

Watching the demonstration footage again may make you think twice about the text also.



But back to Enrique's guest post.....

Guest post by Enrique Matías Sánchez

As you already noticed, this is the original manuscript of the _Salutation to the Teacher and The Eternal One_ you posted on September 24th.

Mohan's video shows a couple of pictures of the manuscript. _KYM's Salutation_ seems to contain the typewritten text as it was, without the handwritten corrections. Mohan's file adds those corrections, which according to the video were made by Desikachar and himself.

The main difference between these two documents is the order of the contents.

I modified Mohan's file to reorder the contents in the same way as _KYM's Salutation_, so that we can easily compare them and spot the corrections.
I also added some formatting to make it easier to navigate.

This version of Salutation_ is available for download at
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwC5mQ9uUlJibzNwQjVtbDFDZjg

Besides the differente ordering, there are three sections that were not included in _KYM'm Salutation_:

- 6. YOGIC PRACTICES DURING PREGNANCY.
- 7. YOGIC EXERCISES AFTER DELIVERY FOR THOSE IN NORMAL HEALTH
- 18. YONI MUDRA or SAMBAVI MUDRA or SHANMUKHI MUDRA

Mohan's video shows that at least the first one was published as an article in KYM's magazine.

-----------------------------

Who has the order right, Mohan or KYM? I'm afraid none of them.

It's pretty odd that Mohan's file starts with 19. Sirsasana. If that was supposed to be the beginning of the book, it should obviously have number 1 (or 43, it this was indeed the continuation of Yoga Makaranda).

It makes much more sense to start with the Yamas & Niyamas, and the Classification of Asanas, as KYM's Salutation does.

Further proof is that in page 76 of Mohan's file we read:
``A short description of each of these asanas and the distinctive curative effect of each will be given in the *following* chapters.''

But in that file all the asanas have already been explained!


What happened to the 18 sections that should precede Sirsasana? Maybe in this book Krishnamacharya explained Pranamayas (14 Bhastrika, 15 Sitkari, 17 Sitali) before the asanas?

---------------------------------------

It's clear that Mohan's file doesn't have the right order.

As we can see in Mohan's video, the typewritten pages are not numbered. It's no surprising that after so many years they got displaced.

For instance, steps 4-7 for Sarvangasana appear under Dvipada Viparitakarani (in KYM's Salutation are in the right place).


Does this mean that KYM's Salutation has the right order? I would say no.

If it did, it would not include Maha Mudra twice (pages 25 and 37).

Besides, in page 16 of KYM's document we read:

``Out of the eight steps in Yoga, the first two, YAMA and NIYAMA, deal with the cleanliness, physical and moral for maintaining proper ethical standards. The next two steps are asanas and pranayamas and *these have been dealt with in previous chapters*.''

And then goes on to explain Tadasana, Sirsasana and all the others.

While Mohan presents the asanas following their numeration, KYM's document is just reminiscient of it (this can be clearly seen in the Table of Contents of my Corrected Salutation).

It's also strange that the treatments for asthma and hernia are explained before saying which diseases are amenable for Yogic treatment. Mohan has that right.


Maybe I'll try to put everything in a more coherent order. It's a pity Mr. Mohan didn't share all the pictures of the original typewritten manuscript, which could probably provide some clues.
I guess the original Indian manuscript would give us a definitive answer, but we don't even know whether it's still existent.
----------------------------------

Dating the book is a bit difficult.

Indra Devi studied with T. Krishnamacarya around 1937-39. I'm not sure whether "Yoga for Americans" was her first book on Yoga.

By the way, I don't think K. thought of this writing as Yoga Makaranda part II. If he did, he would not have included again the Yamas and Niyamas, and the asanas already covered there.

I think this is a standalone work, providing a much more personal vision of Yoga.

To me, YM was written as an encyclopaedic work:
- he includes the shatkarmas, which he didn't use to teach
- the 10 yamas and 10 niyamas as per HYP, instead of the Yoga Sutras, etc.

I find the approach in Salutation different, more in line with his later teachings.

I won't dare to date it in relation to the Yogasanagalu until we have a complete translation of it.

Ah, the Yoga Gurundam is mentioned in the Sitali and Setubandhasana sections, as well in the classification of asanas. While it would describe some asanas, K doesn't mention it prescribes any predefined order for practicing them.
------------------------------


Shall we make a timeline?

1888: K is born in Muchukundapuram, Karnataka, India.
1914-22?: K studies for 7.5 years with Rammohan Brahmachari near Lake Manasarovar, at the foot of Mount Kailash 
1926?: K. starts teaching in the Jaganmohan Palace in Mysore
1934: Yoga Makaranda is written in the Kannada language
1938: Yoga Makaranda, Tamil edition
c. 1941: Yogasanagalu in Kannada language
1941: KPJ moves to Madras
????: Yogasanagalu, 2nd edition
1950: The Shala is closed
1954: K. moves to Chennai (Madras).
1955: Ramaswami starts studying with K.
1958: Yoga Mālā by KPJ is written in Kannada
1961: TKV Desikachar becomes interested in Yoga 
1962: Yoga Mala is published
1971: A. G. Mohan starts studying with K.
1972: Yogasanagalu, 3rd edition with new photos
1976: The Krishnamacharya Yoga Mandiram (KYM) is founded
1981: Yogasanagalu, 4th edition
1993-95: Extracts from Makaranda are published in Darsanam
1999: Yoga Mala is published in English
2006: Lakshmi and Nandini Ranganathan translate YM to English
2011: KHYF publishes YM as a book through Media Garuda


My take? Right now I think the Salutation might have been written in the 70s for the KYM (which focuses on Yogatherapy), after the 3rd edition of the Yogasanagalu. 

The preface to this edition lists his previous works, including the brief Yoganjali, but doesn't mention Salutation nor a forecoming part 2 of YM.

Even though he `expanded and altered many the topics regarding the practice' he might not be satisfied with the old text, and then decided to start a new one from scratch.

My 2¢.

from Grimmly20 November 2012 19:46

Enrique I have TKV Desikachar's 'Health Healing and Beyond' here which sketches K's early biography out nicely

Says here

1900  K. and family moved to Mysore do K could join the Parakala Math

1906  K attended University of Benares ( continued to practice the asanas and pranayama he had been taught by his father- Mohan)

1909  Returned to Mysore

1909-1914  Remained with the Swami of Parakala math, Mysore

1914  Returned to Banares, attended classes at Queens college, took vacations in the himalayas

1915 -1922  *Lived and studied with Rammohan Brahmachari near Lake Manasarovar, at the foot of Mount Kailash 

1922-24  Teaches yoga and Studies at Universities in Allahabad, Calcutta, Patna and Baroda

1924  Returns to Mysore

1925  Marries Shrimati Namagiriamma

1926  Maharaja of Mysore meets K. in Banares and invites K. to come and teach in Mysore.

1937 Teaches Indra Devi

1947 Indian Independence

1950 Shala closed

1950 K. moves to Madras to teach Yoga (family remains behind but joins him later)

1956 Moves to Madras permanently, to a small apartment.

( Kausthub Desikachar on page 117 of Yoga of the Yogi says he wrote Yogasanagalu there (in that small apartment), perhaps the 2nd edition? Or was this actually our Makaranda part 2. He writes interestingly,
"Literally translated Yogasanagalu means "Yoga Asanas". The book was an extension of his earlier book Yoga makaranda". p117 Yoga of the Yogi.

His description seems to be of the Yogasanagalu but perhaps Kausthub mixed them up? Either way, going by this, the text Kausthub is referring to had to be written between 1956 and 1961 because they moved house in '61. We also know that AG Mohan's text displayed in his video was typed up in 1960

1961  Moved to a larger apartment in Gopalapuram, Madras - TKV Desikachar becomes interested in yoga and begins to study with his Father

AG Mohan's original typewritten English translation of Yoga Makaranda (part II) text stamped with this address.

1964 Family move again to an even larger apartment In Mandavelipakkam, Madras.

1966 Series of asana photos taken and later included in Yogasangalu 

(Why did they take these photos now if Yogasanagalu had only just been revised, besides which the pictures taken don't correspond to the text of Yogasangalu, they are actually much closer to the asanas described in Yoga Makaranda ( part 2)

1975  Revised Yogasanagalu

Kausthub mentions too that K. revised Yogasanagalu in 1972 ( 3rd edition ) adding a section on posture modification (possibly the extra chapter that Satya is currently working on translation). the pictures in the edition we're translating here were taken 1966

*Now interestingly Mohan has K returning to Banares after studying yoga in the Himalayas with Brahmachari in 1918 and mentions that in a brocher K had printed in the 1960s he givs those seven years of study with Brahmachari 1911-1918

14 comments:

  1. Lack of gratitude? Rather the opposite! Anyone interested in the Yoga of T. Krishnamacharya should be grateful to A. G. Mohan for the trouble of preserving the manuscript, transcribing the text to a computer, and then making the file publicly available.

    IIRC I read somewhere that, shortly before his death, Krishnamacarya gave a lot of papers to A. G. Mohan. So maybe more little treasures will surface in the near future...


    As Grimmly explained, I dind't write those lines as a post, but as comments that I tried to keep short. Besides that, English is not my native language. Please be forgiving of the lack of style and any grammatical error.

    ReplyDelete
  2. "I find the approach in Salutation different, more in line with his later teachings".

    I know what you mean Enrique, Satya says the descriptions of asana in yogasanagalu are almost exactly the same as in Yoga makaranda. That makes me wonder why the asana in Salutations/Makaranda 2 don't include Vinyasa count or was that perhaps taken out in the 60's Was it just a typing up or a revision, perhaps a little of both.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Not that it much matters but it is curious this second part of Makaranda was translated into English in the 60s but not the first part (or was it)? Also curious to know if prior English translations of Makaranda 1 are in circulation, aside from the Ranganathan's version.

    Also, the paragraphy discussing Devi appears to be verbatim to what is in "Salutations."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I kind of get the feeling they might have wanted to present it as a stand alone version leaving out the kriyas etc. see my comment below.

      Well spotted re the Indra Devi mention. i think that was a later edition, a kind of gloss Intro to the new format.

      so much guessing.

      Delete
    2. Hi Anon,
      yes, ER Ramaswamy Iyengar reportedly did a translation of the Yoga Makarandam in 1988, but never got published.

      TKV Desikachar made other translation with the help of Dr. K. Vijayalakshmi, Sri A. V. Balasubramanian and others. Parts of it were published in KYM's magazine (Darsanam) in 1993-95.


      The book published by KHYF was supposed to use these translations, but included -without permission- huge parts of Lakshmi Ranganathan's.

      For more details:
      http://www.khyf.net/khyf/yogamakaranda.aspx

      Delete
  4. I don't know Enrique, the order of AG Mohan's presentation does make some sense to me if we do see it as a continuation of Yoga Makaranda part 1. Remember that text ends with the pictures of sisasana (headstand) but with no descriptions, however K does stress the importance of Shoulderstand and headstand. AG Mohan's part 2 begins there, again stressing the importance of Shoulderstand and headstand and then gives an extended treatment of those vinyasas. After the inversions he seems to want to add descriptions of more postures, still need to check how many are in part 1 already and how the descriptions may differs apart from the obvious vinyasa count.

    Pranayama was supposedly planned for part 2 and I get the feeling it was at this point that there was a rethink, how to make it a stand alone volume. A recap of the limbs, so we start with yamas and niyamas, categorise the asana (3rd limb) which are going to be looked at at the end of the book in a more applied way than in part 1 and the beginning of part2 A brief discussion of the later limbs before a detailed treatment of pranayama (4th limb). The books ends with applied asana for therapy.

    There is a certain logic to it.

    For me then , I'm thinking of it as having gone through a number of transformations of conception.

    1. As part of Yoga Makaranda in the beginning, perhaps to be added to that text for a later edition.

    2. Thinking of it as a stand alone volume thus the recapping of yama/niyama etc and the inclusion of some of the asana from the first volume and then the main pranayama section. We can still think of it here as yoga makaranda but Volume 2 rather than part 2

    3. The addition of the therapy section which seems to me a later development ( nothing in yogasanagalu), perhaps when it was typed up 1960?

    4. the salutations 'Salutations to the teacher 'format perhaps for lecturing

    Just throwing this out there for speculation sake and what else is this.
    1= After Makaranda part 1 but before Yogasanagalu (Late 30's?)
    2= either side of yogasanagalu (early 40's)
    3=1960
    4=1970's to be used as lecture notes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Shall we make a timeline?

      1888: K is born in Muchukundapuram, Karnataka, India.
      1914-22?: K studies for 7.5 years with Rammohan Brahmachari near Lake Manasarovar, at the foot of Mount Kailash
      1926?: K. starts teaching in the Jaganmohan Palace in Mysore
      1934: Yoga Makaranda is written in the Kannada language
      1938: Yoga Makaranda, Tamil edition
      c. 1941: Yogasanagalu in Kannada language
      1941: KPJ moves to Madras
      ????: Yogasanagalu, 2nd edition
      1950: The Shala is closed
      1954: K. moves to Chennai (Madras).
      1955: Ramaswami starts studying with K.
      1958: Yoga Mālā by KPJ is written in Kannada
      1961: TKV Desikachar becomes interested in Yoga
      1962: Yoga Mala is published
      1971: A. G. Mohan starts studying with K.
      1972: Yogasanagalu, 3rd edition with new photos
      1976: The Krishnamacharya Yoga Mandiram (KYM) is founded
      1981: Yogasanagalu, 4th edition
      1993-95: Extracts from Makaranda are published in Darsanam
      1999: Yoga Mala is published in English
      2006: Lakshmi and Nandini Ranganathan translate YM to English
      2011: KHYF publishes YM as a book through Media Garuda


      My take? Right now I think the Salutation might have been written in the 70s for the KYM (which focuses on Yogatherapy), after the 3rd edition of the Yogasanagalu.

      The preface to this edition lists his previous works, including the brief Yoganjali, but doesn't mention Salutation nor a forecoming part 2 of YM.

      Even though he `expanded and altered many the topics regarding the practice' he might not be satisfied with the old text, and then decided to start a new one from scratch.

      My 2¢.

      Delete
    2. Enrique I have TKV Desikachar's Health healing and beyond here which sketches K's early biography out nicely

      Says here

      1900 K. and family moved to Mysore do K could join the Parakala Math
      1906 K attended University of Benares ( continued to practice the asanas and pranayama he had been taught by his father- Mohan)
      1909 returned to Mysore
      1909-1914 remained with the Swami of Parakala math, Mysore
      1914 returned to Banares, attended classes at Queens college, took vacations in the himalayas
      1915 -1922 Lived and studied with Rammohan Brahmachari near Lake Manasarovar, at the foot of Mount Kailash
      1922-24 Teaches yoga and Studies at Universities in Allahabad, Calcutta, Patna and Baroda
      1924 returns to Mysore
      1925 Marries Shrimati Namagiriamma
      1926 maharaja of Mysore meets K. in Banares and invites K. to come and teach in Mysore.

      1937 teaches Indra Devi

      1947 Indian Independence

      1950 K moves to madras to teach Yoga (family remains behind but joins him later)
      1956 Moves to madras permanently ( Kausthub Desikachar on page 117 of Yoga of the Yogi says he wrote yogasanagalu there, perhaps the 2nd edition? Or was this actually our Makaranda part 2
      "Literally translated yogasanagalu means "Yoga Asanas". The book was an extension of his earlier book Yoga makaranda". p117 Yoga of the Yogi

      His description seems to be of the Yogasanagalu but perhaps Kausthub mixed them up?

      He mentions too that K revised yogasanagalu in 1972 adding a section on posture modification


      *Now interestingly Mohan has K returning to Banares after studying yoga in the Himalayas with Brahmachari in 1918 and mentions that in a brocher K had printed in the 1960s he givs those seven years of study with Brahmachari 1911-1918

      Delete
  5. Heh, to me, it makes me wonder whether he ever actually taught Vinyasa count.

    It's not in the books by Indra Devi, Yvonne Millerand, T.K. Sribhashyam, Desikachar, Ramaswami nor Mohan.
    Only in Yoga Makaranda and Yogasanagalu (and in KPJ's Yoga Mala, of course).

    All the other books do as Salutation: they explain how to get in/out of a posture, but they don't count the breaths/steps.


    Mohan says about Salutation:
    ``The document seems to have been written during the 1930s and early 40s.''

    What makes him think so? It can very well be later than the Yogasanagalu. When was it first distributed in the KYM?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There's a sense though where Yoga Makaranda is...encyclopaedic, listing the kriya's the mudras etc. It feels like the descriptions of the asana are the ideal versions, with the fixed Vinyasa count. It would of course suit teaching kids, a more regimented approach. But still in YM2, ( which I've been going through this morning practicing all the asana as described - did you notice he has you go into lotus while in mayurasana, while actually up there on the elbows....tricky, doable just but tricky), there's still that writing out of every inhalation and exhalation but rather than being an ideal description there's more of a teaching methodology going. Some of the asana start from standing and finish at standing, Vajrasana, Bhekasana, mayurasana to name but three. interestingly, vajrasana ais almost exactly Ramaswami style and mayurasana almost exactly Ashtanga 2nd series style.

      Loving this text the more I go through it and liking the lay out more and more,

      Delete
  6. Added this as an Update
    I'm coming around to an earlier date for Yoga Makaranda (Part II) after all. I've just finished a ten hour practice, pranayama, a long slow Primary series and then, while the body was still loose, a six hour work through of the text of Yoga Makaranda (part II). It took so long because I was carefully following all the instructions, practicing all the variations, highlighting and taking the odd notes. And I hear Yoga Makaranda (part I) in the text, I really do. Admittedly there is no mention of the vinyasa count that characterises part I, but the focus on the breath is there, the postures where you can include retention after exhalation, those after inhalation, the exploration of the breath in Asana. In short pranayama in asana. The descriptions aren't as formal as in the Makaranda we're familiar with, they are more explanatory than descriptive, it's a teaching manual. At times though it's quite extreme, Mayurasana described just as we're familar with from Ashtanga 2nd series, but K. offers a variation where we take the legs into padmasana mayurasana while still balancing in regular mayurasana, tricky and hard on the nose. There are sequences almost exactly like Ramaswami's presentation of Vinyasa Krama, but in suptapa Angushtasana K. includes a full padmasana variation, something you can imagine him including back 1938 when that old demonstration video was short.

    So although I think the texts has been worked on and added to over the years, adapted in line with projects that never bore fruition, I'm coming around to the idea that the bones of text may well have been originally written down in the late 30's early 40's.

    Watching the demonstration footage again may make you think twice about the text also (I've added it to the post), look at that shoulderstand sequence.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Just wondering why Desikachar said in the Darsanam magazine in 1994 that "with the death of the Maharaja the other volumes [of Yoga Makaranda] were not written" while it appears Desikachar has corrected this document. Is this part of an attempt to conceal Krishnamacharya's teachings?

    ReplyDelete
  8. Hi Chloe. I guess it depends if the document was considered to be Yoga Makaranda part 2 at the time. AG Mohan shows the cover of the file but not the title page of the document. had Krishnamacharya titled it Yoga Makaranda (part 2) back in the 60's ? Had they made the connection back then or did they consider it a separate unfinished text? I'd love to know if Krishnamacharya himself considered it to be the second part of Yoga Makaranda, if he was ever asked. My guess at this point is that part of the text was sketched out as the second part quite early on, surely it would have been something that K would have wanted to get around to completing. I can imagine him picking it up and working on it for awhile before being interrupted and having to work on something else, another edition of yogasanagalu for example. i think it works as a companion volume and had a great time practicing with it yesterday.

    Now the Yogasangalu however...why has that never been published? Or K's notes on Hathayogapradipka or the Gita, where are the collected writings on yoga by T. Krishnamacharya?

    ReplyDelete
  9. Notice K. was living at the Gopalapuram, Madras address between 1961 and 1964. This is the address stamped on AG mohan's original typewritten translation of the 'Yoga Makaranda part 2'

    ReplyDelete

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from Kalama sutra, translation from the Pali by Bhikkhu Bodhi This blog included.

"So, as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering" — then you should abandon them.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

"Now, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them. Buddha - Kalama Sutta

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